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mattdw 13 ( +1 | -1 )
Subject: GK Forum v Fritz: Round 1 - Page 3 Interesting stuff! I'm thinking Be3 too, it's what I would play anyway - whether that's a good thing or not is another matter!
ccmcacollister 43 ( +1 | -1 )
GM Michael Adams ... Plays both sides of the Scotch. Also plays 5.Nb3 in his wins with WT.
-> www.chessgames.com

-> www.chessgames.com

I'm looking for some good GM games with 5.Be3 too, but not finding them so far. I'll program in that position and see what comes up, next.
ccmcacollister 76 ( +1 | -1 )
Some more, these with Be3 There are a lot more games listed at the other d-base. Interestingly there are two there where Hitech played Be3 on the WT side, vs "Pam" in 1989 and vs "Blockhuis" in 1990. But that d-base wont take you right to a game, you just have to go there and enter the position or players.
SO a few now with 5.Be3 from the same site as above:
Sveshnikov-Yurtaev pre-1991
-> www.chessgames.com
Ivanchuk-Anand 1/2 2005
-> www.chessgames.com
Morovevich-Kramnik 2001 1/2 (of course :)
-> www.chessgames.com

**********
ccmcacollister 89 ( +1 | -1 )
mattdw Matt, I'm going to go with GM Michael Adams and 5.Bb3 for my own choice. Unless something more convincing comes up for 5.Be3 (which I tried to find, but didnt see every game, just the names I knew. Perhaps someone else can do better for Be3 than I did ... tho I did find the lines varied and interesting for it, i must say). But it seems to me that Adams knows it as well as anyone, playing both sides as he does.
* * *
[ Incidentally, I did see a game where Adams had the Black pieces vs Kasparov and drew it. That went 3.Nxd4 Nf6 4.Nxc6 bxc6 ... etc. Apparently he must think that...Nf6 has better winning chances, or else harder to beat, than Fritzy's ...Bc5 ; I'm not sure which. But in either case ... Good For Us ! ]
* * * * *
{I actually looked way back too, for some games by GM Larry Evans or by Weaver
Adams and came up blank :( ......}
* * *
Well I am all contributed-out for awhile. Hope it was helpful to someone. Or at least a bit interesting.
sough 3 ( +1 | -1 )
Has fritz even played Bc5 yet?
ccmcacollister 57 ( +1 | -1 )
mattdw Sorry, I think there are pixies in these forums bcuz Im sure I meant to say I like 5.Nb3 above.
***
Here is a game sent to me by mlazar where WT posts a win with 5.Be3 tho ...
(Thanks MikeL !)
***
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Bc5 5. Be3 Qf6 6. c3 Nge7 7. Bc4 O-O 8.
O-O a6 9. Nc2 d6 10. Bxc5 dxc5 11. Ne3 Rd8 12. Qh5 b6 13. f4 Be6 14. Be2 Bc8
15. Na3 Bb7 16. e5 Qg6 17. Rad1 Qxh5 18. Bxh5 Rxd1 19. Rxd1 Rd8 20. Nac4 Rxd1+
21. Bxd1 Kf8 22. Kf2 Bc8 23. Nd2 g5 24. g3 Be6 25. Be2 gxf4 26. gxf4 Bxa2 27.
Bxa6 Ng8 28. Bd3 h6 29. Be4 1-0
***
sough
Yes, Fritz played 4...Bc5 back on the past thread
luckypawn 38 ( +1 | -1 )
5.Nb3 for me, too I don't like throwing the queen in the middle of the board so early, as a result of 5. Be3 Bxd4 6. Bxd4 Nxd4 7. Qxd4, although the statistics probably say it's to white's advantage. Nb3 is a cozy move that will make the queen wing well-equipped. The same would go for black if it plays 5....Bb6, but I still feel better about this move than any other. So I vote for Nb3
mattdw 57 ( +1 | -1 )
Thanks ccmcacollister for all the past games, I've had a look through them, interesting stuff and it is certainly very helpful to get a feel for how some of these lines might turn out in the short term. Unfortunately my opening knowledge is negligible (or non-existant) so I can't really contribute much at this stage (to be honest my strategic knowledge is equally non-existant so I think I'll have to stick to calculating variations later on or something!). However, I like the look of Nb3 - I completely overlooked it the first time around.
ganstaman 43 ( +1 | -1 )
luckypawn Why is it a problem if the queen is in the middle of the board so early? It can't be easily attacked (or maybe at all, I need a board), so it will actually be a very strong point for us. We want black to allow us to develop our queen without consequences, where she can influence who has control of the space in the center of the board. If we play Be3, I don't think we need to worry at all about that series of exchanges. It may not be the best move still, but if it's bad I'd hope there are other reasons.
luckypawn 48 ( +1 | -1 )
Good point That series of moves would probably come to our advantage. The following look like possibilities to me:

5. Be3 Qf6 6. c3 Ng-e7 7. Bc4 Ne5

5. Be3 Qf6 6. c3 Ng-e7 7. g3 d6

I feel more optimistic about:

5. Nb3 Bb6 6. Nc3 d6 7. a4 a5 8. Nd5

In any case, I see more now that Be3 might be ok, perhaps better than Nb3, and I think I chose too soon. I'll change to "undecided" for now and will think about it more.

U'll also have a look at the games ccmcacollister has generously posted (thank you!) and consider them. If I don't post by the time you're ready to play, it means I couldn't decide.
sough 22 ( +1 | -1 )
Be3 My vote is Be3. Nb3 is fine I'm sure but it decentralizes the knight while the bishop will be more protected at b6. We shouldn't be afraid of a developed queen, remember how 4...NxN isn't considered a viable option as 5.QxN gives white a monopoly on the center.
luckypawn 15 ( +1 | -1 )
Oops! typo.....I meant "I'll" also have a look at the games ccmcacollister...etc.

(I realize that Nb3 might not be played out like I just posted, of course)
thumper 12 ( +1 | -1 )
5. kf5 I'm leaning towards 5. kf5
I like the attack lines and disruption on the king side. Maybe overly aggressive but looks fun.
thumper 2 ( +1 | -1 )
Oops, typo Make that 5. Nf5 (not kf5)
ccmcacollister 667 ( +1 | -1 )
SorryLONG! 4-FritzGameSeeOnlyYellowUnderlines OUR/FRITZ BOARD NUMBER again, is board #5448348
. __________________________________________
Forgot to give the info for the game WT won in my July 22 post. It was an ICCF e-mail game, section EM/M/189 {which I believe is restricted to either Masters or Masters & Experts} ECO code C45, played April 30,2002 between:
Michael Ole Madsen vs Anton P. Beishuizen
*** ______________________________________________________
Does anyone happen to know what that key might be over there on the left side of a keyboard, that you can hit with a hand, wrist or misc. object and it will delete your whole pre-post?Starting over. awhhhhh
***____________________________________
No thanks required mattdw & luckypawn , youre most welcome. I was hoping that the games would provide a 'feel' for the opening lines we might go into. Since I was not able to be selective enough to pick them for actual move to move superiority. Also I like to review a lot of GM games for the wealth of ideas that may be present within them. It gets the brain stirring too.
***_______________________________________
I agree with luckypawn_ganstaman_sough about Queen centralization here a plus for WT. What Ive read from a GM is that such centralization is favorable if the
Queen is not subject to significant harrassment to gain time or misplace it. As a practical matter, it seems that it is harrassment by pieces, particularly when there
is still a N-B3, which is usually more harmful than by pawns. I've seen a number of
computers like to play that exchange as BL, of 4...Nxd4 5.Qxd4 even tho the Queen
s mobility and exertion of pressure from Qd4 is favorable. I guess they must figure the squares lost to the WT N@d4 makes up for it?! I dont think so.
*** ______________________________________________________
We've pretty much focused upon only 5.Be3 or 5.Nb3 so far. And mentioned 5.Nxc6
but there are another 6 moves that might be considered. 5.Qg4 looks aggressive but seems to be a loser quickly. 5.Ne2 is too undeveloping for my taste. Also we have 5.Nf3 and 5.Nb5 knight moves for consideration. The same objection can be applied to both; They lose time vs Nb3/Nxc6/or Be3 which all develop or trade off tempo. Thus BL could gain a lead of 3 to 1 in piece development; such 2piece+ lead being about where I believe Developmental Danger most traditionally begins, as a good general rule. { & While Nf3 placement is quite fine in a Goring, it doesnt take Three Moves to get it there in those variations!}
Thus remains 5.c3 ... I dont see anything greatly wrong with it since it may well be transpositional very soon. Yet perhaps it is an inaccuracy to use the pawn support
first, when a piece development can do the same task instead. So there is some time loss involved again, but right offhand I do not see any particular way for BL to take great advantage of it, before it would become transpositional!? Does anyone
see where this sequence change can be capitalized upon?
Are we still set upon 5.Be3 vs 5.Nb3 or would anyone like to see 5...Nxc6 or one of the others? I will keep my own vote for Nb3 (selfishly,as it may suit my style more)
but will enjoy 5.Be3 equally if it goes that way. There do seem to be a particular
wealth of ideas within those subvariations.
~~~ _____________________________________
Upon seeing the games of Adams again today, I noted the first win partly due to a gift from BL, who sac'd The Exchange. Why(?), unless he thought he could better hold that ending?! Thus my confidence in Adam's knowledge is less today than the preceeding eve.
*** ___________________________________________________________
}8-)
***
PS//
This is not directly applicable to the Fritz game. But intended for anyone who likes to practice analytical skills aor enjoys Problems/Puzzles.
~~~ ____________________________________________
In the 2nd Adams game <is vs Kotronias> there's an interesting exercise re move 30. Before 30.Ng3 there's a poss fork of the BL King and the d7 Square via Nf6+ ...
QUESTION: Why didnt Adams play 30.d7 ?
The point being- IF 30...Bxd7 31.Qxd7 Qxd7 THEN 32.Nf6+ K-move & 33.NxQd7 - So, Why Not?
After 30.d7 Bxd7 31.Qxd7 is the BL resource 31...Bxf2+? The simpler 31...Qxe4? Or something else there? Can you work out the lines mentally, in a systematic "Tree" form? (as used by GM Kotov in "Think Like a GM") How does this compare to the Tree you get using Corr.Chess type analysis? And vs a look by Fritz? Could WT have influenced those lines by Zwishenzug of Bxc4 / Nxg5 / Nf6+ / or Other !?
__________________________________________________________________
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Another Question about that game ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

At the very end, after WT plays d7 BL replies with Nc6? .Why didnt he just play ...
Bxd7 ? I do not know the answer to this part myself, for certain. I just have a couple of guesses about it. Does anyone know for certain?
* * * ___________________________________________________
LAST MINUTE CHANGE; This is what I thought of Nf5 'blindfolded' :
"5.Nf5 looks to give BL equality or better after...d5 and even ...g6 is an idea there."
~~~ __________________________________________________
Which goes to show how important to set-up properly and not skimp on analysis !
For now actually LOOKING at it, even quick & superfishially, after thumper suggesting it above; Very Interesting!
It still seems to me that ...g6 is quite alright and aides BL's development there. And that WT would do best to retreat Ne3 or Ng3 in reply. As for 5...d5, it looks like a wild one to play. WT can drop a piece there or more,for EG if 6.exd5 Bxf5 7.dxc6?? Bxf2+ 8.Ke2 Bg4+ & thus his Queen is lost. But I'd like to take a real good look at Nf5 if there is time left. See if there are games and actually analyse it well.
Surely there will be games to be found, if it is even close to sound because like thumper suggests, it Does just look like so much Fun :))
_______________________________________________
.thumper- Wondering what you see as some likely continuation(s) there ?!
____________________
thumper 23 ( +1 | -1 )
Ccmcacollister 5. Nf4 d5, 6. Nxg7+
5. Nf4 g6, 6. Qd5
Both look dangerous and a bit wild but fun. I don't have the time to run the games out. Blacks development on kingside is superficial. Pressure and infiltration soon occure. Don't be afraid to drop a piece for the kill. You have the skills to run the numbers CCM.
thumper 4 ( +1 | -1 )
Aargh!! I'm not very good at typing. That's 5. Nf5 (not 5. Nf4)
ganstaman 29 ( +1 | -1 )
thumper I'm just guessing here (maybe 1 minute of analyzing this?), but how does 5. Nf5 Qf6 look to you? We'd have to be very careful, at the least.

I still prefer Nb3 or Be3 (mostly Be3) so that we don't have to worry about falling behind in development in an open position. But if you can make the Nf5 work, I'd be willing to go on the adventure.
luckypawn 44 ( +1 | -1 )
I have decided I prefer Nb3 I still think it's a good position for us, and I think it's more promising than Be3. Nothing seems to be wrong with Be3, (except that I don't think it's the most excellent place for a bishop, but that might be my imagination and in either case it seems to have no flaws), and even Nf5 looks like a good attack, although a bit risky. But I think Nb3 would lead to a game that's both safer, and more interesting for us. So I vote for it
mossberg4570 22 ( +1 | -1 )
Be3 Because development is supreme, centrally posted knights are often useful, and moving a piece THREE times in the first 5 moves is unappealing on aesthetic grounds, unless you're playing the Alekhine defense (which I do).
sough 45 ( +1 | -1 )
In the Be3 line I think we might want to depart from the most popular option in the GK database at move 7. 7.Bc4 gives black ...Ne5 chasing away the bishop, 7.g3 scores better. Maybe fritz or us will deviate before that but,just saying.

Here's a site with some analysis -> web.archive.org
mattdw 33 ( +1 | -1 )
I vote Nb3. Sorry about that, I've been a bit busy for a day and a bit - I've now lost track of who thinks what about this position so could everyone clarify which move they prefer, I don't think there is going to be much fresh discussion on this position so we may as well get the next move down. My vote goes for Nb3.
thumper 26 ( +1 | -1 )
Nf5 Attack king side. Force the king to come out after the knight. Attack bishop with queen then counter with bishop. Disrupts defensive pocket of king, eliminates castle option brings firepower to kingside.
ganstaman 45 ( +1 | -1 )
Be3, and thumper question I vote 5.Be3

thumper : Sorry to ask this again, but what is your response to 5. Nf5 Qf6? I don't think we should make a move like 5.Nf5 unless we consider all the consequences first. 5...Qf6 prevents most of our kingside attack, develops a 3rd piece for black, and after our knight is forced to move a 4th time, the black queen and bishop will be aiming at f2. This isn't something we can just ignore.
thumper 27 ( +1 | -1 )
ganstaman Sorry for the sporatic posts but my access is, 'complicated'.
I'm only a 1600 player and not using an engine to generate moves but I like...
5. Nf5 g6, 6. Ng7+ Kf8, 7. Qd5 Kxg7, 8. Qxc5 Nf6, 9. Nc3 Re8, 10. Qg5
-or-
5. Nf5 d6, 6. Nxg7+ Kf8, 7. Nh5
Both ways look like advantage White to me but I play both sides at 1600 level :(
far1ey 10 ( +1 | -1 )
Thumper thumper and if 5. Nf5 Qf6 protecting g7 then...
luckypawn 2 ( +1 | -1 )
5.Nb3 That is my vote
ganstaman 26 ( +1 | -1 )
thumper No problem, and I hate to sound like an @#$%, but far1ey understands what I'm saying at least: I don't want to know all the lines where 5.Nf5 looks great, I want to know how it looks after 5...Qf6.
mattdw 13 ( +1 | -1 )
Votes so far... Nb3:
Luckypawn
Mattdw
ccmcacollister

Be3:
Ganstaman
Mossberg

Nf5:
Thumper

Which do you prefer Far1ey? I couldn't find any preference in the thread.
luckypawn 10 ( +1 | -1 )
sough voted I believe sough voted for Be3
sough 1 ( +1 | -1 )
Be3 Yes luckypawn Be3 for me.
thumper 1 ( +1 | -1 )
Ganstaman/Far1ey How about 5. Nf5 Qf6, 6. Nc3 d6, 7. Nd5?
ganstaman 28 ( +1 | -1 )
:) thumper Hmmm, I like 6. Nc3. However, 6...d6 has to be a mistake. Maybe 6...Nge7 is better, but then 7. Nd5 Nxd5 8. Qxd5 Bb6, and I don't think we're doing so bad.

I realize we're taking a long time to make our 5th move, but I'm starting to think 5.Nf5 deserves a little more thought. Gotta go now, but I'll keep looking at this.
far1ey 0 ( +1 | -1 )
Me! Be3 for me!
sodiumattack 14 ( +1 | -1 )
Hmmm... hope I can vote too. :-)

Anyway, I would play 5. Nf5, according to thumper.
mattdw 24 ( +1 | -1 )
Be3 takes the lead! Be3:
Ganstaman
Mossberg
far1ey
sough

Nb3:
Luckypawn
Mattdw
ccmcacollister

Nf5:
Thumper
sodiumattack

I'll leave it until tonight before we make our move seeing as the prime candidate has changed recently - still time for more votes! :)
zhnkiu 25 ( +1 | -1 )
Nb3 safe. Roughly thought out, against Nf5, I'd respond (as black)
Nf5 g6
Qd5 (suggested) Bxf2+?
Kxf2 gxf5
Bc4 (something else?) Qf6

1. Qxf5 Qd4+ and a bishop falls.
2. Bg5 Qd4+
Qxd4 Nxd4 can black hold on?
3. e5 Nxe5
Rd1 d6
Bf4 c6 can black hold on?

=====
Be3...
I'd like to have my bishop free for Bf4 or Bg5


mattdw 12 ( +1 | -1 )
Be3 it is! Sorry for the delay again, I'll go and program it into Fritz and I'll let you know what we have to contend with in a moment.
mattdw 8 ( +1 | -1 )
...and Fritz plays... 5...Qf6

As expected, so where does this leave us? I would say 5. c3 and not much else!
sodiumattack 20 ( +1 | -1 )
I think... that 6. c3 is the only choice.

Maybe 6. Nb5!? would be funny after 6. ... Bxe3 7. fxe3 Qh4+ 8. g3 Qxe4 9. Nxc7+ Kd8 10. Nxa8 Qxh1... but I think Fritz is too strong to do bad in this line. :-)

Therefore, I vote for 6. c3.
luckypawn 21 ( +1 | -1 )
I also vote 6.c3 It might get in the way for anytime we'd want to play Nc3, though....but at least c3 drives away any Qxb2, should we have to move our D knight. And I like the extra passageway for our queen. So this seems to be the best choice.
ccmcacollister 77 ( +1 | -1 )
matt ... Just a reminder, the board hasnt updated yet. I know you are busy at the moment.
***
Well I am pleased with Be3 too as it seems to have the greatest wealth of sub-variations within this one. That will make it interesting. And Nf5 would have been interesting too. [It seems somewhat moreso in the Scotch, than in similar positions such as the Sicilian].
While Nb3 is what I generally play in a real game, it will be good to learn many positions new to me with Be3. And certainly we stand no worse.
It does seem most follow here with c3. Seems natural enough. I wont actually vote till looking around at things a bit more, since inside scoop indicates we probably wont be moving till Monday at least.
mattdw 54 ( +1 | -1 )
Hey Hi, back again! I've had a further look at the position and to me it looks like there is no good alternative to 6.c3. Has anyone else found anything of worth? Nxc6 looks very bad as we would probably end up down a pawn with two pawn islands, doubled pawns and a weakened kingside after:
6. Nxc6 Bxe3 7. fxe3 Qxb2 8. Nd2 dxc6

I think we would end up with another poor position if we played 6. Nb5 too, with something like this to follow:
6...Bxe3 7. fxe3 Qh4+ 8. g3 Qxe4
Which doesn't look great.
ccmcacollister 103 ( +1 | -1 )
welcome back matt! having actually Looked at the Board (cuz ive been hurtin trying to blindfold it these days!) It does seem c3 is the only decent move, ala matt, lucky and sodium, to me too. That being the case, we should have a LOT of source material out there. Justoffhand I dont recall seeing anything else here in the d-base games posted. And c3 is certainly playable, having been around from Bronstein to, er Kramnick was it? Well one of the newcomers anyway :)
Just looks hard to even try Nc6, with no attack on a Qd8 while doing it, and b2 and Be3 subject to captures. I'll vote to c3. Someone once said 'Being forced does not make it bad ... you should not force your opponent to make good moves!"
Actually about 8 dozen people have said that second half ... But AHA ... Looks like we can put one over on ole Fritz here ... already we've got him.her.it forcing us to make Good Moves! I'll go ahead an vote for c3 now too. Unless someone has a real sockdolager from some ancient Persian scroll or such. Plz lay it on us.
}B-) ...die box !
thumper 2 ( +1 | -1 )
c3 yawn sigh, pout
mattdw 19 ( +1 | -1 )
6. c3 it is. Lol, thanks craig :)
I'll go ahead and program c3 in, I think someone would have come up with something good by now if there was an alternative. I'll be back in a moment with the machines reply!
mattdw 49 ( +1 | -1 )
and Fritz plays... 6...Nge7!

The moves so far:

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. d4 exd4
4. Nxd4 Bc5
5. Be3 Qf6
6. c3 Ng-e7

I would suggest developing our other bishop now, also clearing the way for castling.
The options are:
Be2 - A little passive for my liking.
Bd3 - Not very clever unless we want to lose a pawn.
Bc4 - Much more active, 7...d5 is not a problem in the current position.
Bb5 - What's the point in this? We're not pinning the knight and we can't create any weak points in blacks pawn structure with exchanges: 7...O-O 8.Nxc6 Bxe3 9.fxe3 Nxc6 and we are in a bad way.

Therefore I put 7. Bc4 forward as a candidate move.

mattdw 14 ( +1 | -1 )
Forgot to include... ...variation of Bd3, we lose the pawn by:
7. Bd3 Nxd4
8. cxd4 Bxd4
9. Bxd4 Qxd4

Though I'm sure everyone could work that out! :)
ccmcacollister 250 ( +1 | -1 )
bd# 5448348 Restated below... . board #5448348 for your ease of analysis, to avoid a half page of scroll, and so save
All our energies for baffline & battling the Evil Fritz, scourge of the boards...
***
For anyone interested in Smothered Mates, here is a potential S.Mate I found while looking at a liquidating sequence, following from a 7.Be2 line. Since this was off the cuff moves, for obtaining feel of the line just for myself, I dont expect it to be unavoidable by Fritz T. Box. But part of my analytical philosophy is to see & know the potentialities of a game/position as much/deeply as possible. My feeling that if Or if this line happened to be deeper than Fritz was looking, beyond his horizon, or showing favorable as far as it looks to, then when the mate comes within Horizon, he might have to do something unpleasant to stop it, some move(s) earlier. It can certainly chose other than playing ...f5 there, like Rae8 or others. But as I said, for those who like Smother Mates, this one is just a little bit different, as WT could also just win the Queen and also there is not chance to capture the Nf7.
*** **** *** **** *** **** *** **** *** **** *** **** *** **** ***
after 6.c3 Ng-e7 7. Be2 Bxd4 8. Bxd4 Nxd4 9. Qxd4 Qg6 10. Bf3 O-O
11. O-O b6
12. Nd2 d6 13. g3 Bb7
14. Rf-e1 f5
15. exf5 Nxf5
16. Qc4+ d5 17. Bxd5+ Bxd5 18. Qxd5+ Kh8 19. Re6 Qh5 20. Re5 Qh3
21. Nf3 Ra-e8
22. Rxe8 Rxe8 23. Ng5 Qg4
24. Nf7+ Kg8
25. Nh6+ Kh8 26. Qg8+ Rxg8 27. Nf7+
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
[I am trying out that move structure to see if it might be easier to keep track of ones place in the game, without a notecard or such annoyances ?! Any thoughts?]
[Pardon me, I mean publishable thoughts now, please ... :]
********************************************
As for realgame analysis, I've started mine with Be2 for the reason that I noted in some of the d-base games in presented in this thread that the f3 square & perhaps
associated WT squares complex can become very weakened for WT in some games.
Seem to recall Bg2 being played in one game as well. Not sure if I forwarded it to here tho!?
I plan to look at every check and capture move, as per my standard approach. And all the same for responses to whatever we might do. Because my Chess Trainer
friend, an FM, tells me to Always Check for Check! And I think he is right, so it has become part of my standard pre-selection procedure. And for Corr. there can be some pretty stunning captures made, especially by Boxes, so I Dont want to be caught napping by the infernal machina ! But now, am just getting started. So here goes . . .
oh, Would like to mention that Fritzy often enjoys playing ...Ne5 in similar positions from the Goring. Perhaps that tendency will carry over here?

ccmcacollister 163 ( +1 | -1 )
PS... also intend to see if if we might want to play on the Queenside ... then instead of a liquidation play, the moves of b4 and a4 kicking and threatening the Bishop might be useful with correct timing, and so I'll want to know what would be best application of that idea
. Perhaps something like Be2 o-o / b4 Bb6 / a4 a-pawn-moves by BL. etc.
***
Also it seems to me that I saw Nc2 played here in one of the sample games?! Will want to see what that is about too ...
And also to look at a Bc4 move for us, that mattdw likes as being most aggressive. Which I think is usually the case ... if Ne5 or such wont hurt it. It is nice that it can forstall ...d5 from there yet attack f7 and BL Kingside. Tho positionally Be3/Bf3 or Bg2 would pressure ...d5, we dont get the dual use of K-side
aiming.
Fischer and Velimirovic are both "Bc4 guys" in the Sicilian. I cant help but think they would like it here if there is no negative factor against it. Besides the obvious one of tiny time loss if BL were to play ...a6 and ...b5 which hardly seems a concern tho. Unless we were to o-o-o !? hmmm }8-]
#################
I HAve done that in the Scotch. But it was in OTB Class play, and was permitted to set up as WT just like a Yugoslav attack vs a Dragon. So must have been ceded
a tempo to get there. But it worked nicely there. Just something to kick around in some corner of our mind, perhaps? It interests me just to look at, having no idea how that might play in this postion. His Bb6 or Ba7 would seem to get in the way of a Q-side assault tho.
Beware these Blindfold Thoughts! It may well be they should be given a cigarette and shot at dawn !!
mossberg4570 41 ( +1 | -1 )
7. Bc4 Is the mainline.

7. Be2 is refuted by 7... d5
7. Bd3 loses a pawn with no compensation.
7. Bb5 was played by Blackburne in 1881 and I can't find a win by white since.

Alternatives are 7. g3, 7. f4, 7. Nc2

7. Nc2 would work great if black plays Bxe3, but with 7... d6 or 7... Bb6 black stands better.

7. g2 and 7. f4 haven't been played much, and with poor results.

We REALLY ought to stick to the mainline for now. Exotic moves aren't going to get us anywhere against a computer.