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| From | Message | Posted by roblear ability-tw.com
8/09/2008 10:55:49 Play online chess | Subject: am i right?
Message: i've had a bit of good luck recently and my rating's improved to the point where i'm now regularly playing 1500+ rated players (who are all way better than me in my opinion, but that's another matter)...
i've noticed that higher rated players don't seem to play pawn moves such as a3 to prevent Nb4 or Bb4, or conversely h3 to attack the g4 square.
i've often used these kinds of moves in the past, but i don't see them much from better players. maybe it's a reflection on my poor development?
| Posted by tim_b ability-tw.com
8/09/2008 13:15:45 Play online chess |
Message: I can't speak for anyone else, but those sort of moves can be a waste of time. Sometimes it's better to kick away a piece once it invades rather than pre-empt the incursion. As usual, it depends on the circumstances!
| Posted by ionadowman ability-tw.com
8/09/2008 16:13:49 Play online chess | Possibly...
Message: ... one needs to think about what the value of these bishop and or knight moves may be. tim_b is right. The value of the pawn move depends on situation; but so does the value of a N or B move to b5/g5/...b4/...g4.
When making the piece move, the mover ought already to have planned a response to an attack by a flank pawn: an exchange on the c-file (if it's a bishop); a sac on f7 (if you've just played Ng5); a retreat - and where to? Sometimes it's not a bad idea fort White, say, to develop a bishop at d2 via g5, losing a tempo, but inducing a small but exploitable weakness in Black's K-side. I've done that myself.
On the Black side of a Sicilian Defence, ...a6 is often useful even if it doesn't hit a bishop, partly as apreparation for a central thrust, but also because Q-side expansion is on Black's agenda anyway. So 1.e4 c5. 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxc4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6, the Najdorf Variation, is a very popular line. That little move hides a good deal of aggression. The Sicilian Kan System also involves an early ...a6.
Conversely, the Two Knights' Defence often features an early advance of a White Knight to g5:
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5!? ...
I think the debate whether this is sttronger than 4.0-0, 4.d4 or 4.d3 is still ongoing. Of course it's pointless hitting the knight now. Black will usually play 4...d5 5.exd5 and now 5...Nxd5 is very risky owing to the enormous attack White whips up: the Fegatello, a.k.a. the Fried Liver: 6.Nxf7 Kxf7 7.Qf3+ Ke6 (forced if Black wants to keep the material); 8.Nc3 Ncb4 (the irony of it!) 9.a3! (biffing the knight , hoping to dislodge it fronm its defence of d5. The fork on c2 looks tempting, at that!) 9...Nxc2+ 10.Kc1 Nxa1 11.Nxd5 etc. All this is theory, which continues for several moves more yet.
Black has better alternatives at move 5, 5,,,Na4, the "Main" line turning out rather well for Black, despite the pawn deficit.
But even at move 4, Black can seriously consider ignoring the attack on f7 by playing 4...Bc5!? Now, if 5.Nxf7 Black has the astonishing 5...Bxf2+!! 6.Kxf2!? (6.Kf1 may be better) ...Nxe4+ 7.Kg1 (I had someone play 7.Ke1?? against me once on GK 7...Qh4+ 8.g3 Nxg3 9.Rg1 Ne5+ 10.Rg3 Nxg3 0-1) 7...Qh4 with an attack probably strong enough at least to balance White's.
The alternate capture at f7, 5.Bxf7+, less ambitious is perhaps the harder for Black to meet: 5...Ke2 whereupon White usually retires the bishop to b3 or d5. In the following OTB game, the presence and absence of the flank pawn moves under discussion prove to have further impact:
White: N.N. Black: IAD
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 Bc5
5.Bxf7+ Ke2 6.Bb3 Rf8 7.0-0 h6
The first of the flank pawn moves, played to drive back the knight, and relieve some of the pressure on the light squares - in other words, to prepare to advance the d-pawn.
8.Nf3 d6
w
9.d3?! ...
Now this is one point where White might have been better advised to prevent Black's next move by 9.h3!
9...Bg4!
Threatening, among other things, to bring a knight in to d4 thence to break up White's K-side pawns.
10.Be3 ... (10.c3 came into consideration)
10... Nd4 11.Bxd4 Bxd4 12.c3 Bb6 13.Nbd2 Qd7
14.Qc2 Rae8 15.h3? ...
b
A real bad-luck pawn. Correct at move 9, here it is merely weakening:
15...Bxh3!
Something you sometimes have to watch for if you want to biff bishops!
16.gxh3 Qxh3 17.Nh2 ...
Played to protect g4, but maybe a strike at the centre by 17.d4 offered more hope?
17...Ng4! 18.Nxg4 Qxg4+ 19.Kh1 Qh3+ 20.Kg1 Rf4
21.Qd1 Qg3+ 22.Kh1 Rh4#.
I guess in the end you have to think beyond the flank pawn move, and indeed beyond the piece moves against which the flank pawn move is directed, whether as an attack or a deterrent. If the move is part of a longer term plan, or if allowing a piece to land on the "Knight-5" square will really cause you trouble (as indeed it can, quite often) then probably it's OK, but if it's "off the cuff" or "can't think of anything better to do right now", then it's probably un-OK.
Cheers,
Ion ——— Title Match Is Tied With One Game to Go in Regulation — There is one more regulation game left in the World Chess Championship match in Sofia, Bulgaria. If neither Viswanathan Anand of India, the titleholder, or Veselin Topalov of Bulgaria, win on Tuesday, they will have to go to overtime. On Sunday, they drew Game 11. It was the seventh draw in the match, though, like some of the other draws, it was not without drama. Anand had White and opened with the English — the first time in the chess match he had done that. No doubt he switched openings to try to catch Topalov off-guard, but it did not work. The players followed well-known theory for 10 moves, and then Topalov deviated from earlier games, though it was a minor ...
Posted by savage4731 ability-tw.com
8/09/2008 19:55:57 Play online chess |
Message: You're right. Strong players almost never play a3/h3 without a good reason. Here's why, in general, its usually bad:
1) It wastes a move that could be used to develop a piece.
2) You can always play it after the pin without a loss of time.
3) It weakens the kingside pawns.
4) Pins arent always bad. For example, the Bxf7+ then Ng5+ then Qxg4 sac. Or the Bg4, Be2, Nd4, Nxd4 trick. Also, using the g-file to attack after Bxf3, gxf3. Also, Legall's mate.
5) The h3 pawn can become a target esp for bishop sacs.
6) After h3, g3 can become weak. Esp. If black is pinning the f2 pawn with a bishop.
7) If your opponent captures the knight with the bishop that gives you the two bishops.
8) Its a bad habit to get into: i.e. making mechanical moves and not paying attention.
9) Its passive. Which not only hurts your chances in the game but passive play will slow down your development as a player.
10) You shouldnt automatically assume things like doubled pawns are bad.
11) You should be careful with pawn moves because you cant move them back.
12) You should be playing to control the center in the opening not making pointless flank pawn moves.
13) When I see those kinds of moves against me I know its usually an easy win.
14) A lot of times beginners will think they can easily win a pawn. For example: 1.e4, e5 2. Nf3, Nc6 3. Bb5, a6 4. Bxc6, dxc6 5. Nxe5. But they miss 5...Qd4!. Chess isnt that simple otherwise no one would play it. If you find yourself losing pawns like that its because you're making mistakes and/or not seeing the whole position not because you didnt prevent the pin in the first place.
Usually beginners make that kind of move because they're afraid of missing something. Its better not to play out of fear but to play your best and if you make a mistake to learn from it.
——— Anand's missed opportunity — The chess World Championship is on a knife-edge. But Anand could have made a mark in this game. Anand and Topalov go into the 12th game of their chess match today with scores level. If drawn, tie-break rapid games will be played on Thursday. Topalov's declaration before the match that he would neither offer nor accept a draw has clearly had a liberating effect on both players, resulting in one of the most entertaining world chess championship finals we have seen in years. All the games have been long and hard-fought, so it's hardly surprising that tiredness is affecting play. Anand missed several chances to win in game 9, Topalov had a promising endgame in game 10 but ...
Posted by roblear ability-tw.com
8/10/2008 03:36:25 Play online chess | am i right?
Message: cheers guys. i do appreciate you taking such time to reply on this.. such down to earth comment is hard to find in books sometimes, but i'm taking the time to practice on the board more often nowadays. i've found youtube is great too - loads of instructional stuff there
thanks again
rob ——— Playing for the World Title, Minus Any Fireworks — Before a world chess championship match, players spend months looking at their opponent’s games and studying opening systems, often with the aid of chess computers and databases. They also hire trainers, who are called seconds, to help. It is a time- and labor-intensive process. That is one of the reasons that fans look forward to the chess matches. They want to see what the players will do and what new ideas they have discovered, particularly in the openings. The current world chess championship match between Viswanathan Anand of India, the titleholder, and Veselin Topalov of Bulgaria has been as closely contested as predicted. But there have been no eye-opening innovations. Game ...
Posted by savage4731 ability-tw.com
8/14/2008 13:53:29 Play online chess | roblear
Message: I didnt mean to imply that you were a beginner. A 1500 rating is very respectable whether you think you deserve it or not. But it is a beginner's move. I was venting some pent-up frustration from what I frequently see on this site especially in blitz. ——— With Another Draw, Chess Championship Match Remains Tied — Game 10 of the world chess championship match between Viswanathan Anand of India, the titleholder, and Veselin Topalov of Bulgaria, ended in a relatively uneventful draw on Friday. With only two games remaining in the best-of-12 series, the players are tied with 5 points apiece. If the match should remain tied after the last two games — which is a real possibility at the moment — it would go to a tie-breaker of four rapid games (each player starts with 25 minutes and has 10 seconds added to his time after each move). Such a tie-breaker was used in the 2006 world chess championship match between Topalov and Vladimir Kramnik of Russia. After each player won a game, and one ended ...
Posted by roblear ability-tw.com
8/23/2008 03:36:00 Play online chess | to savage4731
Message: hey mate there was no offense taken whatsoever. i consider all the responses as pure help..
rob ——— Title Match Remains Tied After Champion Misses Win — With the world chess championship match having entered a critical stage, Viswanathan Anand of India, the titleholder, switched openings in Game 9, hoping to recapture momentum and the lead that he relinquished with a loss in Game 8. He almost did. But, with victory in sight, Anand faltered and missed a couple of winning continuations, which allowed Veselin Topalov of Bulgaria, the challenger, to salvage the game and keep the best-of-12 match tied. In each of the previous games he had White, Anand had steered the opening into the Catalan system, which is solid, but not too dynamic. In Game 9, he played 3 Nc3 instead of 3 Nf3 for the first time. That gave Topalov ...
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