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| Posted by premium_steve ability-tw.com 2/02/2003 19:28:08 Play online chess |  Subject: what's the absolute worst first move?Message: i was trying to think what it might be, and i decided maybe f3 would be pretty bad for white to play. what do you guys think? is white at a disadvantage if he plays a move like this? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted by brobishkin ability-tw.com 2/02/2003 19:58:01 Play online chess | Hmmm... Message: There are no absolutes in chess... But I think anything besides (e4) (d4) (c4) and (Nf3) would be inferior... Bro... | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted by triangulator ability-tw.com 2/02/2003 19:59:51 Play online chess | f3 Message: is playable it has been played by masters. I would think Nh3 or Na3 would be pretty bad ——— Chess World of Karpov and Kasparov — Standing next to each other, side by side, Anatoly Karpov and Garry Kasparov made a last minute effort to sway the FIDE elections their way. One day before the vote, during the press conference in the Siberian town of Khanty-Mansyisk, they were trying to explain how they will change the chess world. Karpov was running for the FIDE presidency and Kasparov supported him. They still had a small chance to win. In the last six month they criscrossed the world, talking about the wonderful game of chess and what could be done to make it more popular. The next day, Sept. 29, the FIDE delegates re-elected Kirsan Ilyumzhinov, who promptly announced that he defeated two world chess champions. What ... Posted by caldazar | ability-tw.com 2/02/2003 22:09:07 Play online chess Message: I've had an opponent play 1. Nh3 against me in a tournament game; it's not all bad. True, it's not actually good either, but it's not ALL bad. The point is that after 1.Nh3 d5 2. g3 e5 3. Bg2, White intends to enter into a King's Indian setup where he doesn't have to toss his knight (which would normally be on f3) somewhere in order to play f4, after which he can drop the h3-knight back to f2. Kind of weird, and it doesn't really work all that well, but at least White doesn't have to worry about the latest wrinkle in the Sicilian Najdorf. ——— Plenty of Fighting Spirit on Final Day of Pearl Spring — Magnus Carlsen of Norway had already clinched first place at the Pearl Spring chess tournament in Nanjing, China, but there was still a lot to play for, so all the games on the final day were hard-fought and two of them were decisive. The most important game of the day, in terms of the standings and the prize money, was between Viswanathan Anand of India, the world chess champion, and Etienne Bacrot of France. They were tied for second place. Anand had White and opened with his d pawn. Bacrot used the Nimo-Indian Defense and achieved a solid position out of the opening, though Anand had the bishop pair — a potentially long-term advantage. Bacrot began to play loosely, opening up his ... Posted by atrifix | ability-tw.com 2/02/2003 22:19:03 Play online chess AFAIKMessage: Current theory regards 1. g4 to be the worst move on the board, Black obtaining a slight advantage by means of 1... e5 2. Bg2 h5 3. gxh5 Qg5 4. Bf3 Qh4(=+, last I knew). All other first moves allow Black to equalize, but not more. Of course, their practical chances vary a great deal (more games are won by 1. g4 than by 1. Na3, for example). ——— Chess: Magnus Carlsen snaps slump in China — Magnus Carlsen defeated three elite chess grandmasters to take the lead in the Pearl Spring double round robin in Nanjing, China. The Norwegian chess star scored 5-2 in the first seven rounds of the 10-game tournament. Carlsen had fallen to second in the world chess rankings because of poor performances in two recent events, but he has regained an estimated eight of the 24 rating points he lost. World chess champion Viswanathan Anand of India and French grandmaster Etienne Bacrot were Carlsen's closest rivals, with scores of 4-3. Bacrot upset Anand in the first cycle but lost the rematch. Veselin Topalov of Bulgaria, who has not completely recovered from losing the 2010 world championship match against ... Posted by lordoftherings | ability-tw.com 2/03/2003 06:27:34 Play online chess i think 1.f3 Message: what is the idea of the move?? to help 2.e4 ?? ——— Nakamura Poised to Defend Title at Cap d’Agde — Hikaru Nakamura of the United States has worked his way into the world’s chess elite (he is ranked No. 15), but as good as he is at slow chess, his real forte is at faster time controls. He is generally considered to be among the top three or four in the world at blitz chess (where each player has five minutes or less for the entire game) and he also seems to be among the world’s best at rapid chess, in which each player has about 25 minutes per game. Two years ago, he won the Cap d’Agde Rapid chess tournament in France in a field that included Magnus Carlsen of Norway (now No. 1 in the world), Vassily Ivanchuk of Ukraine (who Nakamura beat in the finals) and Anatoly Karpov of Russia, the former ... Posted by blindio | ability-tw.com 2/03/2003 08:00:45 Play online chess A pawn move . . .Message: . . .rather than a Knight, would be worse - because a pawn structure flaw is for keeps. 1. f3 is an inferior way of supporting a later central advance and weakens the pawn structure in a detrimental fashion in the event of a later 0-0. With g4 you can at least fianchetto. ——— Chess Champion's Class Act — Vishy Anand is the most versatile world chess champion. After all, he won world championships in classical matches, knockouts, rapids and blitz and dominated the advanced chess in which players are able to consult the computers. In this respect, no other world chess champion comes even close. But the Indian superstar is also a class act and gives credit where credit is due. Twice this year, Anand turned a favorite defense of his former coach, Artur Yusupov, into gold. "It was a pleasure to have Artur Yusupov working as my second, both personally and professionally," Anand writes in the preface to Yusupov's excellent book Boost your Chess 2, Beyond the Basics, published by Quality Chess. Yusupov was ... Posted by jordian31 | ability-tw.com 2/03/2003 08:18:26 Play online chess Message: any first move i make!!!!! :) Posted by gunnarsamuelsson | ability-tw.com 2/03/2003 09:16:45 Play online chess f3Message: Is the worst move I would say..for whats its worth.Any master using it would surely use it just because of that fact, not because it was playable. Distinction: f3 is not playable but bad, any other word for it would undermine chess terminology. Ive heard f3 is called the "fried fox" or something, I would say good players use it only because its interesting to see if they can manage anyway. Posted by gunnarsamuelsson | ability-tw.com 2/03/2003 10:29:01 Play online chess A computer test of 1.f3.Message: Chessmaster vs Chessmaster(8000) time 15 min result:draw Chessmaster vs Morphy (chessmaster personality considering positional factors highly, weaker then the cm personality in most positions) time 15 min result: 0-1 !! I know this test can be criticized and hardly represent refined scientific method, but anyway a nice study! Posted by keiserpaul | ability-tw.com 2/03/2003 12:44:24 Play online chess atrifixMessage: Playing 2.Bg2 after 1.g4 e5 is not the best move. Grobs' recommendation was 2.d3 (seeking K-side advantage) and Basman usually plays 2.h3. (he also plays h3 after 1. .. d5) Posted by keiserpaul | ability-tw.com 2/03/2003 12:52:40 Play online chess lordoftheringsMessage: The original idea of 1.f3 was a transposition to the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit : 1.f3 d5 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 and 4.e4 or 1.f3 d5 2.e4 dxe 3.Nc3 exf 4.Nxf3. Another idea is in conjunction with Nh3-f2. I have tried this a few times, but this set-up takes too much time : 1.f3 d5 2.g3 e5 3.Nh3 c5 4.Bg2 Nc6 5.Nf2 Nf6 6.0-0 Posted by keiserpaul | ability-tw.com 2/03/2003 12:55:20 Play online chess brobishkinMessage: Could you give me one reason why moves as 1.Nc3 or 1.g3 are inferior ? Posted by brobishkin | ability-tw.com 2/03/2003 13:07:25 Play online chess Keiser...Message: Nc3 and g3 are acceptable but give away the initiative to black... But I will say that those two moves are just slightly inferior to the other opening move I suggested... After Nc3 black can answer with d5 due to the fact that it's covered by the black Queen... After g3 with a white fiancetto kindside coming up, it hands black an extra move for center domination... That was the only reason I didn't mention those two moves (Nc3 and g3)... Bro... Posted by atrifix | ability-tw.com 2/03/2003 15:44:47 Play online chess WellMessage: I had not seen 2. d3 mentioned before (although 2... d5 would seem to be the natural response). 2. h3, to my understanding, leads to the same type of position after 2... h5. As for Nc3, f3 and g3; Nc3 tends not to offer as many practical chances as normal moves, but White can at least contest the initiative after, for example, 1. Nc3 d5 2. e4. 1. f3 tends to not put up a fight for the initiative (and consequently has even less practical results), but White can still probably equalize. 1. g3, however, is quite powerful in the hands of a prepared opponent. The idea is not so much as to stay in Benko System or otherwise unique territory, but simply to obtain a favorable transposition to the KID or KIA, etc. Consequently this opening offers White quite a few practical chances if he is prepared, but it's hardly good as a weapon in itself. Posted by pureredwhiteblu | ability-tw.com 2/03/2003 16:04:46 Play online chess worst move...Message: I would say any rook pawn move... but that is just me. A3, A4 H3, H4 Posted by gutschi | ability-tw.com 2/03/2003 17:13:13 Play online chess well...Message: ... I think the worst bad move is 1. Nf3 if the second move is 2. Ng8 and then 3. Nf3 ... 4. Ng8 and so on... :) No, joking apart... there's no worst first move... even h4 is possible I think Posted by brobishkin | ability-tw.com 2/03/2003 18:25:35 Play online chess Atrifix...Message: If whites reaction to 1.Nc3 d5 was 2.e4... What would he do if black plays 2. ... d4?... Black still clearly has the initiative and after whites next move (example: 3.Ne2) black can play 3. ... e5 securing a space advantage... So you can see how hard it is to contest the iniative once you've given it away... Bro... Posted by triangulator | ability-tw.com 2/03/2003 18:28:42 Play online chess gtushiMessage: I did not get that we are talkin about first moves for white, and Nf3 is a very solid move! it has been played by GM gery kasparov and I bet you would have a lot of trouble beating someone your level against it Posted by atrifix | ability-tw.com 2/03/2003 18:49:33 Play online chess Dunst OpeningMessage: 1. Nc3 d5 2. e4 d5 3. Nce2 e5 4. f4 Nc6 5. Nf3 is =. Posted by myway316 | ability-tw.com 2/03/2003 19:33:30 Play online chess Durkin's Attack...Message: ...1.Na3 is a real stinkeroo! While we're on the subject,what's the worst for Black? How about the Fred:1.e4 f5??? Posted by brobishkin | ability-tw.com 2/03/2003 19:59:13 Play online chess Atrifix...Message: Point taken... Lets not go to 4. ... exf4 5.Nxf4 Bd6 and so on... Napoleon had success with this opening back in the early 1800's against De Remusat so I do know it's tangable lines of play can develop into such likes as the French, Caro Kann or even the Closed Sicilian... But it's still somewhat unorthidox... Bro... Posted by premium_steve | ability-tw.com 2/03/2003 20:20:43 Play online chess i've played 1...f5Message: against e4 just recently in 3- or 5-minute games. i guess it's kind of bad, yeah :). back to the 1.f3 move for white..... i think it's fun to play f3, and then move the king out on the second move.... it isn't all that bad, and it's fun to see how your opponent reacts (i've only done this against good friends though). i've played f3 followed by Kf2 in blitz and, continuing normally, i've done fine with it against average opponents. i think it would certainly get good laughs as well to make white's position even worse. maybe white's first moves could be f3, Kf2, Kg3, h3, Kh2 or something like that. funny eh? :D Posted by triangulator | ability-tw.com 2/03/2003 20:34:41 Play online chess yesMessage: I don't like f5, but e4 e5 nf3 f5 should be considerd I would play that as white or black Posted by pawnstar | ability-tw.com 2/03/2003 22:20:15 Play online chess but...Message: atrifix, if black has achieved equality after 5 moves surely 1.Nc3? is bad. Posted by maca | ability-tw.com 2/04/2003 08:27:24 Play online chess worst moveMessage: i think 1.a4 would worst, becouse an attemp to get your rook in game this way would only result to answer 1 - e6 or e7, and rook couldn't come to game... same way works 1.h4 Posted by triangulator | ability-tw.com 2/04/2003 08:59:57 Play online chess acuallyMessage: I have played a4 vs a 1700 rated friend ina rated game I won, we played a4 a5, h4 h5- very interesting game Posted by weenink | ability-tw.com 2/04/2003 09:19:11 Play online chess 1. g4Message: is absolutly the worst Posted by atrifix | ability-tw.com 2/04/2003 09:56:33 Play online chess ButMessage: ALL openings lead to theoretic equality (except clearly unsound ones like 1. e4 f5, 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 f6, etc.)--the only real considerations are practical chances, not really how many moves it takes for the position to be clearly equal. 1. Nc3 tends to offer less practical chances and lead to situations like a reversed old indian or hungarian defense, so a lot of people avoid it (rightly so). As for 1. a4, I've seen this played with the idea of transposing to a reversed Budapest with an extra tempo (1. a4 d5 2. Nf3 c5 3. e4), which is at least interesting. 1. h4, intending h4-h5-h6, can be played, but it's probably not entirely sound. Posted by keiserpaul | ability-tw.com 2/04/2003 13:43:15 Play online chess brobishkinMessage: The first idea behind 1.Nc3 is to a certain extent related to Alekhine's Defence. The knight is used to lure the pawns so far forward that they become targets of attack or that attacking opportunities occur in the area that is no longer protected by them. The second idea is that it is not only a provocative move, but also a sound developing move. 1.e4 and 1.d4 make development possible, but are not developing moves in themselves. Move likes Nc3 (and Nf3) on the other hand immediately develop a piece. There are other ideas , but I cannot explain them all in detail, I do not want to write a book here. Anyway, saying that 1.Nc3 is given away the initiative is nonsense. Just have a look at game board board #554015. In the first eleven moves, there are 5 Knight moves and 4 Queens move. I think this is plenty of initiative ! Posted by brobishkin | ability-tw.com 2/04/2003 17:42:24 Play online chess Nice game...Message: Black obviously errored when playing (5. ... f6) in which you showed after your brilliant Knight sacrifice (opening up the King side attack), but to use this as an example is not the best way to proove a point... Black simply gave you back the initative after his 5th move... Shall we try a game maybe to discuss or theories?... You as white with 1.Nc3 and me as black playing 1. ... d5... Would love to discuss this move for move... 1.e4 and 1.d4 are developing moves due to the fact of securing central squares and opening up diagonals for the Bishops... Seigbert Tarrasch discribed the developing principle in chess is to maximize the amount of force at your disposal as a combination of force, space, and time... You also want to control as much of the board as possible, so that the enemy has fewer useful posts for his own pieces... Finally, you want to achieve these goals sooner than your opponent, and therefore control the tempo of the game... Bro... One more thing to add... Why is it Grandmasters play the undeveloping (as you say) d4 and e4 more often (and a lot more often) than Nc3 and Nf3?... There's a reason... Posted by keiserpaul | ability-tw.com 2/05/2003 03:57:06 Play online chess brobishkinMessage: After 4. .. Be6 it's very usefull to play 5. .. f6 , this move is considered in most 1.Nc3 books with an exclamation mark, but I agree Siegbert would have called this an "ugly" move. You have a point when saying Grandmasters does not play often 1.Nc3. But nevertheless, Ekjebaerg ( I don't know if I spell his name in the right way) won the 10th Correspondence Europe Championship, and he always opened with 1.Nc3. I think it is only the fashion. You cannot say 1.Nc3 and loose, just as you cannot say 1.e4 and win. I think it is more important you are playing an opening that you know thoroughfully and that you trust, than one that is considered to be the best. Playing it is the best way , so I gladly accept your challenge ! Posted by brobishkin | ability-tw.com 2/05/2003 07:10:13 Play online chess Keiserpaul...Message: Like I stated before... There are no absolutes in chess... There are good moves and bad moves... Im not stating the Nc3 is a bad move... Im simply stating that e4, d4, c4, and Nf3 are just slightly and I mean "slightly" better... Thanks and lets enjoy or game... Im not here to call you stupid or names like a child... I'm here to learn lessons in the game of chess... Wish you the best of moves... I'd wish you luck, but there is no luck in chess... Bro... Posted by atrifix | ability-tw.com 2/05/2003 09:50:10 Play online chess 5... f6Message: is not a mistake, it's the main line. Even 6. c3 d3 has been played before,e although AFAIK, white has only responded 7. Nh4, and 7. Nxe5 is a novelty. If the piece sacrifice is sound, then 6... c5 is probably better, but the sacrifice is still a bit speculative. Posted by v_glorioso12 | ability-tw.com 2/05/2003 15:00:40 Play online chess any wing pawn moves 2 spacesMessage: and g4 are prob. the 3 worst... Posted by brobishkin | ability-tw.com 2/05/2003 20:58:42 Play online chess A confession...Message: While looking (deep) into the Dunst opening... I have discovered and was surprised of the Kingside attack possibilities white actually has... I here proclaim that both Keiserpaul and even Atrifix statements do hold some weight... Bro... |